PEX vs Copper

Check up to be sure the plastic is not Biphenol A type 7 and I think 5… I don’t know for certain but I have heard discussions that some of the new plumbing plastic is that type.

Excellent point! I just did few quick searches, and it appears to be safe:

“PEX Is polyethylene. Its perfectly safe. I wouldn’t melt it and eat it, but its used in medical devices and has been around since 1933 and is the material they make Tupperware out of.”

Not sure if this is possible but have you ever considered running copper just for your drinking water sources and leaving the rest as PEX?

i came across this site when researching about PEX

http://www.calpipes.org/Protec.....ns_PEX.asp

Mixing copper and PEX is definitely possible, but I think you have to take that site with a grain of salt. This is the first site I’ve seen that makes such claims, and if they linked to the “studies” they reference, I might find it easier to believe them.

That said, we haven’t made and decisions on our plumbing materials yet - there’s still a very good chance we’ll end up using copper instead of PEX.

good point perhaps it would be worthwhile to contact the organization for further info or references. i just find it interesting that an organization representing the plumbing trade would voice their concerns like this.

great looking house btw, keep up the posts. have you picked out a contractor yet? my wife and i are currently in the design phase with our architect to build a modern house from the ground up as well.

Keep in mind that the organization is representing traditional plumbers (at least their site sure makes them appear that way… they’ve got an image of a cooper pipe at the top of the page!).

Indeed, we have selected our contractor - we’re working with a gentleman by the name of Steve Ungerman at All Canada Contractors, and the demolition is scheduled to start at the end of July.

That’s good to hear, does your contractor have experience building modern?

Nope, not at all… should be interesting ;)

Do you have any updates on the PEX? We have a lot of corroded copper in our house (running on untreeated well water for 30 years before we bought it!) and fixing the leaks as the appear is getting irritating. I found this article, and it really got me thinking about replacing the whole kit & caboodle! If we get a good manifold system, we could even expand when needed more easily.

We have two baths and one kitchen, so there’s not too much copper in there, but with the addition of the water treatment and the seemingly constant pinhole leaks, a retrofit now might actually save us money in the not-so-long term.

As an aside on that previous article, that site represents unions and plumbers as its primary purpose. Copper = more billable hours and is an existing technology (no new training). Maybe I’m too cynical, but I’d rather review those studies myself, as well.

Hi Leo,

We haven’t really gotten into the plumbing aspects yet, but I’m hoping to have more info in the near future. However, I can say that every contractor I’ve spoken to in the last 6 months has said the same thing - “are you kidding? we run nothing but PEX“.

From what I understand, running PEX would be your best bet as it’s easier to run around obstacles. That said, I can’t imagine a compete overhaul would be easy regardless of which approach you take.

Great Site! Have you decided what you are going to use for “waste” pipes? I have heard great things about PEX for water, but concerned about using plastic for waste pipes because of the noise. Cast iron, while expensive, still seems to be the way to go but wondering what you have come across in your travels.

Thanks Birdman - I can’t say we’ve figured out what we’re going to use for the waste pipes, but my assumption was that it would end up being plastic (I fear cast iron would be way too expensive to install). Regardless, I must admit - waste pipes haven’t come up in discussion at all… until now that is.

I am not suggesting that you “must” use cast iron, but I will give you one piece of advice, from personal experience. Be very “careful” where you route your waste pipes. (I may not be using the term correctly. By “waste pipes” I mean both the toilet waste pipe as well as the shower / bathtub drain pipe.)
I have had personal experience of thin drywall, plastic waste pipes, little or no sound insulation and waste pipes that were routed literally in the wall in the dining room.
We would be enjoying lunch or dinner with guests in the dining room and one of the kids would flush the toilet in their bathroom which was directly above the dining room on the second floor. The sound of the toilet flush was not bad, but the sound of the water running down the waste pipe in the wall was awful. You could actually hear the water rush and then trickle through the wall while in the dining room.
I have been in other houses where the waste pipes run through less “embarrassing” locations. We cut open the drywall and replaced a portion of the waste pipe with cast iron and it made a huge difference. So either, carefully plan where your waste pipes will go (to the extent possible) or alternatively, selectively use cast iron where warranted.(We just bought a new property and will be starting construction in the spring so I plan on being a regular visitor to your excellent site!)

I used cast iron waste pipes due to the noise problem. But you can also try insulating the plastic waste pipes with something like ‘loaded vinyl’ which is a sound barrier. Otherwise they do make a lot of noise when the toilet is flushed.

I’m wondering how much sound proofing the sprayfoam might provide? I’m pretty sure we’ll foam in and around the pipes (at least some of them…), so they should be all sealed up, which should help. If not, the loaded vinyl sounds like a solid option as well.

Thanks for the tips!

Reading the above, I’d just like to add another option: a “loop” system whereby hot water is constantly (more or less) pumped through a loop that visits every fixture, thus reducing the delay of getting hot water out of the faucets. It’s more expensive to run because of the extra pump, so it’s likely less green, but you have much less a wait for hot water.

Also, a friend warned me that some copper piping uses extra thin copper, which can fail, so beware.

And it’s always good to concern yourself with quiet soil pipes, as plastic is noisy and once the walls are closed, the noise cannot be reduced. A quiet house is priceless.

Eric has a good point, a recirc. loop in your home is an excellent idea especially if your heating source is a distance away from any particular fixture. The cost of the pump and the extra piping for the loop should pay for itself in a couple of years (my guess). Plus you have less water down the drain waiting for the hot to arrive. The pex has good insulating qualities but you could add some insulation on the recirc loop as well.